Why Most Entrepreneurs Stay Stuck (And How to Finally Build Momentum)
Most entrepreneurs are not failing because their ideas are bad. They are failing because they keep starting over instead of building on what already works.
In this episode, we talk about why so many coaches and entrepreneurs stay stuck in the cycle of trying new platforms, new offers, and new strategies without ever gaining real traction. We dive into the importance of sticking with one core model, making small adjustments, and building momentum over time instead of constantly reinventing your business.
We also discuss why platforms like Substack are such powerful tools for building an audience, email list, podcast, and content hub all in one place, and how community platforms like Skool fit into the overall business ecosystem.
This conversation is really about business longevity, iteration, brand equity, and why success usually comes from staying in the game long enough for things to start working.
If you’ve ever felt like you’re doing all the things but not getting the results you want yet, this episode will help you rethink your strategy and focus on what actually builds a real, sustainable business.
Connect with Kam:
Epic Conversions Monthly Paid Newsletter can be found at Epicconversions.com
Subscribe to his Substack
https://kamfromepicconversions.substack.com/
Want premium clients from your content?
Grab a free Client Acquisition Audit and I’ll show you exactly where your message, offer, and CTA are leaking conversions—and the 3 fixes to turn your podcast/Substack into a client pipeline.
👉 Book here: https://coachsalchemist.com
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp
Transcript
WEBVTT
1
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Most online entrepreneurs are working way harder than they need to, and the strange part is, it's not because they don't have good products, good ideas, or even a good audience. It's because they're missing one simple
2
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: model piece that can completely change their income, smooth out the rollercoaster, and make their business far more predictable. In this episode, we're talking about why so many people are stuck in the launch, hustle, and start over cycle, and what they can do instead to build something that pays them every single month.
3
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Hi, and welcome to the You World Order Showcase Podcast, where we feature life, health, transformational coaches and spiritual entrepreneurs who are stepping up to be the change they seek in the world. I'm your host, Jill Hart, the Coach's Alchemist.
4
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: On a mission to empower coaches and entrepreneurs to amplify their voice, monetize their mission, and get visible. If you're ready to start attracting premium clients without chasing algorithms or hunting people down like a banshee on a mission, head on over to Coachesalchemist.com and schedule your free client acquisition audit. It's the first step to building a business where your clients seek you out rather than
5
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you having to hunt them down. Today, we are chatting with Kam Jennings. Kam is an online marketing educator who has been helping kitchen table entrepreneurs make more money online since 2016. With over 15 years of experience in online marketing, he focuses on simple business models, recurring revenue, and practical strategies that actually generate income instead of just building audiences that
6
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: never buy. He's known for being very straightforward, very practical, and very focused on what actually works in the real world of online business. Welcome to the show, Kam. It's great to have you with us.
7
::Kam Fatz: Hey, thanks, Joe, I appreciate you having me on. Such nice things you said about me, thank you so much.
8
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Just because you're such a great guy, and I've been so excited about having you on this podcast to chat with you.
9
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So let me ask you the big question, are you ready?
10
::Kam Fatz: Sure.
11
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What's the most significant thing, in your opinion, as individuals, we can do to make an impact on how the world is going?
12
::Kam Fatz: You know, I think that in 2026, the answer would be a little different than I would have gave you 10 years ago. But I think in 2026, the biggest thing that people can do right now to make a little bit of an impact on the world
13
::Kam Fatz: is to be themselves, in their content that they're putting out there, any kind of messaging they're putting out there for their businesses, what they're trying to do online. I don't think it's ever been more important to be yourself.
14
::Kam Fatz: That's what I would say. And I… I say that, yes, with the undertone of AI, on the horizon, where everyone wants to use AI for everything that they do, I think a lot of that starts to really subdue, what makes you a little bit different, and what makes you stand out
15
::Kam Fatz: To other people, and I think your message gets lost in that quite a bit. So, that's what I would say. Starts with the easiest thing in the world. Just be yourself. That's what I would say.
16
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love that, and I'm all about that, too. It's like…
17
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I… I'm a fan of AI in a lot of cases, because it's a great tool, but it's not sentient.
18
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: it is taking information that other people are putting out there without vetting it, and I used to think, and I'm not so sure I'm not wrong, I'm not right about this, that eventually AI is going to become a circular reference, because the more people post
19
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: straight from what AI gives it.
20
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it's taking information and resynthesizing it, not always accurately, may I point out. So…
21
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: As more and more gets out there, it becomes, like, the old telephone game, where you go around the circle and everybody whispers something, and by the end, it's, like, something totally different than what it started out to be.
22
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, I think… I think that's already happening, you know, and I think you're really onto something there, because I was reading just the other day about something called Model Collapse. And this is basically, like, where
23
::Kam Fatz: You know, so AI, it gets smarter by
24
::Kam Fatz: training itself on what we say, what normal people are saying. It consumes all the conversations, and all the books, and all the, all the material, all the training data, but now it's starting to get, like.
25
::Kam Fatz: less good, because there's so much AI content out there on the internet.
26
::Kam Fatz: That it's kind of training itself on AI data, so it's… it's kind of like that circular effect you're talking about. It's… they call it model collapse, because it's messing the AIs up, because there's too much AI content out there.
27
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, it… and you…
28
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you really have to know what you're talking about when you ask AI something, and you have to have
29
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: sky, it… It's kind of a pet peeve of mine, but…
30
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Whenever you go to someone for information.
31
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: or for anything. You need to know what a logical
32
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: rational answer might be to what the question you're asking. Whether it's a doctor, a teacher,
33
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: your AI, your coach, You need to know what…
34
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You need to have an idea of what it is that you are expecting, and if that answer is way outside
35
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Of what your gut tells you?
36
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: then… Y-you need to go somewhere else.
37
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Right. And double-check that, because…
38
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you're probably not wrong. We have intuition as human beings. It's a sense that we… it's… it's one of our senses, and it… it helps us to process stuff that we bring in.
39
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And… people are getting lazy. AI is…
40
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, yeah, they're getting lazy, of course!
41
::Kam Fatz: I guess we started lazy, and AI just enabled us to stay REALLY lazy, because
42
::Kam Fatz: kind of like what you're saying, right? If you're an expert, you can probably use AI like a tool, right? But then, like, if you're not an expert.
43
::Kam Fatz: You know? Like, let's say, well, I don't know how to write a sales letter, okay? But I'm too lazy to figure out how to write a sales letter, I don't want to practice, I don't want to write sales letters every day for 30 days to get good at writing sales letters. Dude, I'm just gonna have AI write the sales letter for me.
44
::Kam Fatz: But, you know, you don't have any point of reference for what it should look like. You don't have any point of reference for, like, the feel of it, what it should feel like. So you just trust AI. You just trust AI to get it right, and kind of like, to your point, I think that's where things start going off the rails quite a bit, so…
45
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And you don't even know who to reference, because, you know.
46
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Some of us have paid a lot of money over the years to learn skills like copywriting, and
47
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Who the good copywriters are, and how to build websites, and how to create programs, and courses, and…
48
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: communities, and they don't just, like… nothing just happens by accident.
49
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And AI tends to make it seem like it can.
50
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You know, a doctor doesn't just become a doctor, or a scientist become a scientist, or a pilot become a pilot by greeting a few lines, and they miss, like.
51
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Big pieces of what's needed in there.
52
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. By, you know…
53
::Kam Fatz: And also, you know, like, it's constantly, like, flattering you, you know what I mean? Like, no matter what your idea is, it's gonna tell you you're fantastic. Oh, that's great! That's absolutely great!
54
::Kam Fatz: Hey, what do you think of this title? I got this title for a book. What do you think? Oh, it's brilliant! And then it'll give you, like, 3 paragraphs on why this title you Kame up with is absolutely brilliant. It could be the worst title in the world. It doesn't matter. It's just gonna tell you it's great.
55
::Kam Fatz: So, I think that can get people into trouble as well, but you know, so…
56
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Again, it's because you don't have a frame of reference for what What it should look like.
57
::Kam Fatz: Yeah.
58
::Kam Fatz: And I hate to… I'm not trying to bash AI, right? I'm not trying to sit here and bash one. Personally, I'm not an AI guy. I will admit, I'm not a big AI guy, but…
59
::Kam Fatz: I'm not, like, judging anyone who uses AI, you know, people can use AI they want, I'm just… we're just talking, I'm just giving my opinions on it, that's all, you know, so…
60
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I… well…
61
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: there's dangers with it. It's like any tool out there. You know, a knife is great in the hands of a chef who knows how to use it, but, you know, give it to a two-year-old and things are gonna go
62
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Wrong.
63
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, right, and if you're using AI right now, and you're having amazing success with it, then, you know, disregard, you know, some of the stuff we're talking about here, but if you're using AI right now, and it's not really going well for you, you're pumping out a lot of content, and…
64
::Kam Fatz: You're not getting the results you were looking for, then maybe consider some of these things we're talking about, because it could have something to do with it, you know?
65
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, and it's… it's a place to… To use to gauge things.
66
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And you can tell it to do things.
67
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Or to give you ideas for things.
68
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But you have to be in control. You have to, again, know what…
69
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What you want it to look like, and not just, like.
70
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: whatever it says must be right, because it's not. It's just not right all the time.
71
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, no, it's not… and the tricky thing is, it usually passes the eyeball test.
72
::Kam Fatz: whatever it spits out usually looks pretty good. When you don't look at it very closely, you're just like, wow, that's… yeah, that's pretty damn good. I like that!
73
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Read it out loud.
74
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, go ahead, Sor.
75
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: No, that's what I'm saying, is you need to read it out loud to somebody else.
76
::Kam Fatz: Yes, yeah, and think about what it said. Because a lot of times.
77
::Kam Fatz: I mean, to your point about, you know, not having a point of reference, I mean, if you don't know any better.
78
::Kam Fatz: You'll think some of that stuff is…
79
::Kam Fatz: Perfect, Dad, that's great, man, that's great.
80
::Kam Fatz: But yeah, like, if you're, like.
81
::Kam Fatz: you know, you're trying to, like, publish ebooks on Amazon, for example, and, you know, you're just, like, doing some research. Oh, man, what genre is gonna make me the most money? Oh, okay, I don't know anything about that genre of e-book. I don't know anything about self-help, or I don't know anything about,
82
::Kam Fatz: you know, sci-fi romance, or whatever, you know? And but that's okay, I got a ChatGPT. I'll just go to ChatGPT and have it write stuff for me. And you're, like, totally out of your depth now, right? You know nothing about this genre, you're just chasing the bag. You're just chasing the bag, you know nothing about the genre.
83
::Kam Fatz: You go to your favorite friendly neighborhood AI,
84
::Kam Fatz: have it write, like, 8 novels for you in, like, an hour, and, like, you're publishing them on Amazon, and you have no idea what it is. You don't know if it's right or if it's wrong. You have no… you have no point of reference for… for any of it, so that's where we run into danger, and Amazon's starting to…
85
::Kam Fatz: clamp down on that a little bit now, I think, too, so…
86
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yes, they should.
87
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, I think the world is getting…
88
::Kam Fatz: fatigued. Not… not like… not like the marketers, okay? Not the people who want to use AI.
89
::Kam Fatz: They're not getting fatigued.
90
::Kam Fatz: The end users and the customers, the people who end up with the final products.
91
::Kam Fatz: I think there's some fatigue happening. I think, you know, people are starting to feel, you know, like, oh wow, this is kind of getting…
92
::Kam Fatz: you know, shoved down my throat a little bit. I didn't really ask for this, but here it is, and I gotta deal with it. I mean, I don't think I could even call, like, a customer support line for anyone I do business with, and actually talk to a person without talking to, like, 3 AIs first. I mean, come on.
93
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, people are tired of it, and that's… I think it was bad before with… when you created courses, you know, the completion rate's always horrible, even if people pay a lot of money, and then they're out there going, oh, that didn't work. Well, it didn't work because you didn't…
94
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: do what we told you to do, but yeah, that's on you.
95
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They're just hoping that if they gave you a bunch of money, somehow that would automatically help them.
96
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: without doing the work. And it…
97
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's happening in universities now. Universities students use AI to create content, and then the teachers use the AI to grade it.
98
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's like… Bark!
99
::Kam Fatz: Oh, go!
100
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: With all this money, people, just, you know, go home and open up your laptop and…
101
::Kam Fatz: Well, I could sell a special report to somebody in 2026, and they won't even read the special report. It's a 30-page special report. They take the special report, they copy it, they paste it into their favorite, you know, LLM, and they have a conversation with the LLM about what was in that report.
102
::Kam Fatz: That's the new way that people engage with content right now, it's…
103
::Kam Fatz: Madness, but that's what's happening, so…
104
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And they don't… they don't get anything from it. I mean, it was bad enough that we went from books to…
105
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to online reading.
106
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There's… there's just…
107
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There's a zone that you get into when you hold a book. I didn't have TV in my life until I was a teenager.
108
::Kam Fatz: Really? That's interesting.
109
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. Why not?
110
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: because I lived overseas, and my dad was a big… well, both my parents were big believers in, you know, go outside and play, we'll let you… we'll call you.
111
::Kam Fatz: Smart, yeah.
112
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: The lights come on, come home.
113
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I… I went… miles and miles away from home. Like, to Tokyo.
114
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: when I was…
115
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: like, 14. Wow. 13, 14. By myself, on the trains. My parents had no idea where I was.
116
::Kam Fatz: No cell phones!
117
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: phones.
118
::Kam Fatz: That was a different world.
119
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, and you couldn't call long distance then, because, you know, it would cost a billion dollars for the end. So, you know, I was just gone. Had something happened to me, I, you know.
120
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Who would never have found me!
121
::Kam Fatz: That's so crazy. I mean, yeah, it's changed a lot.
122
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Stuff like that now.
123
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, no, I don't think people… people don't… don't do it like that anymore. Yeah, it's really interesting the way things have changed, because you're kind of, like, in the same boat as me, like, you remember the world before
124
::Kam Fatz: The internet was everywhere.
125
::Kam Fatz: And then, you remember when smartphones Kame around, and… That was really, just…
126
::Kam Fatz: Fascinating, really, the way smartphones just kind of took over. They Kame around.
127
::Kam Fatz: I remember my wife and I, we went to the, cell phone store to get cell phones, new cell phones, and they're trying to show me these smartphones.
128
::Kam Fatz: And they were like, but you gotta pay for data every month. I was like, I don't think so, that's a rip-off, I don't need that. You know, and I remember that, and then, like, very shortly after that, it just seemed like…
129
::Kam Fatz: within a matter of months, like, they were everywhere. Everyone had smartphones, and now, in 2026, it feels like, really.
130
::Kam Fatz: you kinda gotta have one. To, like, function in the world properly, you need to have this device. It's very strange.
131
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It is strange, and it's…
132
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: a little bit horrifying about where we're going. I read a book, you know Ray Bradbury, right?
133
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, yeah, of course! Okay.
134
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, he wrote a book called… or a story called The Velt.
135
::Kam Fatz: Yes, I'm familiar.
136
::Kam Fatz: Scary.
137
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That horrifies me whenever I go into rooms where they have these HUGE television sets, because that's all that was, is the room with these…
138
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: huge TVs that… beKame real.
139
::Kam Fatz: And the lions ate the parents. Not to spoil… not to spoil it for anybody. That was written a long time ago. If I'm spoiling the vet for you.
140
::Kam Fatz: Y-you know… Sorry! Sorry.
141
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It was definitely a kid's parents' weird paradigm sort of thing. And then 1984, where you've got
142
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Television's watching you, you know, kind of like they do today.
143
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, no kidding.
144
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I can't go anywhere where there isn't a television, like, On, staring at you?
145
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it's not much…
146
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, it's not like there's one. There's a bunch of them. And I heard stories about… we're going way off on a tangent here, but people getting arrested because their refrigerator recorded conversations.
147
::Kam Fatz: Wow, that's amazing. I didn't know about the fridge.
148
::Kam Fatz: But I was thinking, like, every device in my house is, yeah, listening. Every device in my house is listening to every conversation. You might as well be living in a zoo right now. I mean, I'm waiting for them to come around and throw us treats or something, you know? It's like…
149
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm waiting for the aliens, personally, I think they're gonna help us, but…
150
::Kam Fatz: Yeah.
151
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Not only the good ones, I think there's more than, you know, there's good ones and the bad ones, and…
152
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, yeah, well, I mean…
153
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: These are gonna…
154
::Kam Fatz: They said…
155
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Treats, or…
156
::Kam Fatz: I think it was just last year, they talked about, you know, these, UFOs, the documented UFOs, they put the… they showed, they released the unclassified, the material for the UFOs. I mean, what did we do? We didn't do anything. We were like, alright, well, I guess that's weird. I guess I'm gonna go ahead and keep on going about my life, because I don't know what to do about that.
157
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I know! People just don't know what to do with the information, and it's like, the more you find out, the more you're like…
158
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: -Oh, okay.
159
::Kam Fatz: Yeah.
160
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: A little bit.
161
::Kam Fatz: Back to our regularly scheduled programming, I guess, because…
162
::Kam Fatz: I don't know what to do with it. I guess, nothing. I guess I'll just forget I heard that, and I'll just keep on going about my daily activities.
163
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, cause… it's like…
164
::Kam Fatz: I don't know what I thought was gonna happen, you know? Like, when you learned, oh yeah, there actually are really weird objects up there flying around, we don't know what they are.
165
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Damn!
166
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, we don't know what they are, but they're up there.
167
::Kam Fatz: I don't know what we thought was gonna happen when, like, the government actually said, yeah, that's actually happening. We don't know. I don't know what we thought was gonna happen, but I… I guess, like…
168
::Kam Fatz: nothing happened, right? It just… whatever. That's what happened. Yeah, we all know about it now, and…
169
::Kam Fatz: Just go about your life.
170
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Half the people don't even believe it, because we're lied to so much about everything, that, you know, it's like…
171
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Is it true? I think AI is also just making it more clear to everyone that so much of this stuff is just
172
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Created for your entertainment? It's not real.
173
::Kam Fatz: That's, that's a really good point.
174
::Kam Fatz: You know, I kind of worry about the internet lately because,
175
::Kam Fatz: there's so much on the internet right now, it's like, you don't really know, like, what is real and what is not real. Like, I can go, I can find 5 bananas.
176
::Kam Fatz: I'm sorry, I can find 5 articles, right, that'll tell me bananas are, like, the healthiest thing in the world. I should be eating, like, 30 bananas a day or something, right?
177
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Right.
178
::Kam Fatz: Then I can find 5 more articles that'll tell me, like, no, bananas actually aren't healthy for you at all. You shouldn't eat bananas, alright? These are not good for you.
179
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They'll poison you.
180
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, and I can find that for every single food.
181
::Kam Fatz: Right? And I was thinking about this, and it's like, wow, this is crazy. I think that we're the only…
182
::Kam Fatz: Species on the planet.
183
::Kam Fatz: That has no true idea what we should be eating. Like, we don't know what we're supposed to be eating. I mean, no other animal has that problem!
184
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And no other animal can't feed itself as an adult.
185
::Kam Fatz: Right. And we're walking around with stars around our head, like, I don't know, I don't even know what to eat. What's… what's healthy for me?
186
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They mostly can't even identify, like, food in…
187
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We're not even talking grocery store, just, like, in your backyard. Do you know what's edible?
188
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And what will kill you?
189
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I do.
190
::Kam Fatz: I have no idea.
191
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: but…
192
::Kam Fatz: You do, I don't.
193
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It took me a long time to figure it out. I realized that, you know, we're…
194
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We don't teach our children how to garden.
195
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Or to hunt.
196
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Or to fish.
197
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I mean, we are carnivores.
198
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We eat meat, I just, like, it keeps our bodies going?
199
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, you could just…
200
::Kam Fatz: You got half the property.
201
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Vegetables, or…
202
::Kam Fatz: Yeah. But you got half the population who doesn't believe that.
203
::Kam Fatz: You got half the people who's like, we're not supposed to eat meat. Meat's… that's unethical. Like, they've turned… they've turned eating into a religion. It's dogmatic, you know? It's like, oh, yeah.
204
::Kam Fatz: because I used to be, really in… I used to really buy into that vegan thing, you know, and I still…
205
::Kam Fatz: I… there's nothing wrong with vegan eating, like, I… there's no problem with that, but, like.
206
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, I'm with you on that.
207
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: food, not the chemical stuff, because a lot of vegans and vegetarians, they're eating chemicals. It's not…
208
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That you're not actually eating food.
209
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You're…
210
::Kam Fatz: Exactly.
211
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Constructed things that… you don't know what it's gonna do to your body.
212
::Kam Fatz: No, no, it's a lot of processed stuff, and…
213
::Kam Fatz: You know, and the thing is, they package it as very healthy. Like, it's packaged as very healthy, but it's…
214
::Kam Fatz: generally probably worse for you than the alternatives, you know? You're probably better off just going and buying a hamburger than eating some of these, you know, vegan burgers that are out there. But, I don't know! I've ran… here we are! We've run into another alley where I'm bashing another group of people, and I don't mean to do it.
215
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I… I'm not… I'm not really bashing anybody, it's just… it's a fact.
216
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We are a population of people that do not know how to feed ourselves, and we're getting to a point where people don't even know how to cook.
217
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: food. Like, if we lost all the microwaves in the world, and maybe even the stoves.
218
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Could you feed yourself a warm meal? Do you know how to start a fire? Do you have fuel to start a fire?
219
::Kam Fatz: Sad.
220
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I…
221
::Kam Fatz: It is sad. I mean, like, you know, I,
222
::Kam Fatz: You ever read that book, China Study? The China Study?
223
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, it's like a… it's kind of a vegan-based book, and it's all about, you know, these case studies they did in China. It's kind of a dry read, it's a lot of scientific data and stuff, but it really is pro, kind of, vegan, plant-based eating, and I really bought into that for a long time, but, you know.
224
::Kam Fatz: this past summer, I figured out I had diabetes, right? And,
225
::Kam Fatz: I was able to reverse that diabetes. It took me about 3 or 4 months to reverse it. And my doctor says.
226
::Kam Fatz: She was like, I can't believe you reversed this diabetes. Like, that's the fastest… I've never seen nobody reverse the diabetes that fast. I'm not even gonna say you reversed it. I'm gonna say you've got it controlled, I'm gonna recheck your levels in 6 more months, and then I'll say it's reversed if you maintain this situation you're in right now.
227
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Did you know keto?
228
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, yeah. Well, I read this book by Dr. Jason Fung, you know, called The Diabetes Code, right? And it was basically, essentially, low carb, low sugar, and yeah, so that's really how it Kame about. My wife found that book for me, so I wouldn't have found it, you know, she's the one who found it, but
229
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, man, I think that really helped me a lot, and and that was not vegan, man, that was low-carb, low sugar, and that's not just vegan food, so…
230
::Kam Fatz: You know, nothing against…
231
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Oh, it's meat and fat.
232
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, yeah, so it's… You got all.
233
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And not a lot of it. Yeah. Which is the other thing. If you're eating mostly protein.
234
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: meat, protein, and fats, animal fats. You're going to…
235
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: not be as hungry, and you're not gonna have to eat as much. Carbs work on a different sort of system, carbs or sugars, that require you to… to want to eat more and more, and the carbs that we have right now are really
236
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: like, I love bread, and I'm a pretty good baker, but…
237
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: don't like eating store-bought bread, because the flour they use is really horrible for your body. It, makes holes in your intestines.
238
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And your intestines aren't designed to have holes in them.
239
::Kam Fatz: No kidding.
240
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So…
241
::Kam Fatz: That's pretty wild, I didn't know that about bread. That's interesting.
242
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, that's why… We have all the problems we have, and… and flour is in, like, pretty much everything.
243
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, flours and everything, sugars and everything, if you're not careful, like, a lot of dairies and everything, my son has a dairy allergy, and we've had to be careful for a long time about foods that have dairy in them, and it was amazing to me how many foods have dairy in them, so…
244
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I… I had a goat dairy for a long time, so my kids mostly just drank goat's milk.
245
::Kam Fatz: Nice.
246
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And, and we have local, like, cow dairies around us, so we can get raw milk, and I think there's… there's a big difference between pasteurized milk and raw milk, and
247
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: This is my belief, it is not a fact, but my belief is that the process of pasteurizing stuff
248
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Kills any of the enzymes that might make consuming the product.
249
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Totally useless.
250
::Kam Fatz: That's interesting. I've heard that before, just recently, too,
251
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, it's a really funny thing, because…
252
::Kam Fatz: You know, they pasteurize cow milk to make it safe to drink, But…
253
::Kam Fatz: what you're saying, and what a lot of… I've heard a lot of other people say this, too, recently, that, like, that takes away the beneficial elements of the milk when they… when they do that.
254
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, it's really interesting. I… I don't drink cow's milk, really, but I do eat dairy.
255
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: adults, we shouldn't… I really shouldn't be drinking milk. Yeah. We should drink water.
256
::Kam Fatz: There you go.
257
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I like coffee.
258
::Kam Fatz: It's funny, man, it's… it's a rabbit hole, it really is a rabbit hole, but circling it back around to the internet.
259
::Kam Fatz: outside of just health, that's just one example, right? But I mean, you could say the same thing for most things right now on the internet, that, like, well, what is true and what's not true? Like, I don't know what's real and what's not real right now, and I do think that's gonna kind of push people away from the internet a little bit, just because…
260
::Kam Fatz: it's not a fun place to be anymore. It feels kind of, like, stressful, you know?
261
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, it can. If you're not making connections with people.
262
::Kam Fatz: Yeah.
263
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I think that comes back to, you know, creating programs that have recurring revenue streams.
264
::Kam Fatz: Exactly.
265
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: A lot of people are looking to build incomes online now.
266
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, definitely, and communities, right? Like, like, your You World Order is a good example of that, kind of a grassroots, homegrown community.
267
::Kam Fatz: lots of engagement, people are just hanging out there, and you know, that's a good example of, like, a… kind of a night… I don't want to say safe space, but kind of a space on the internet where you feel like, okay, this is just real people in here talking, so that's good.
268
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it's conversations, it's not like I'm standing up there saying, I have all the answers for you, listen to me!
269
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Cause that… Yeah, that's not who I am.
270
::Kam Fatz: Right on.
271
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think that's who you are, either. It's like, we have a certain amount of information in some spaces, but I'm open for people's opinions and what they're doing, and, you know, I can learn from anybody.
272
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, totally. I feel the same way, I mean…
273
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, I get things wrong all the time, and you know…
274
::Kam Fatz: I've never felt like I wasn't a student, you know what I'm saying? Like, I've been doing this for a long time, but I feel like I just, I'm kind of staying in that student mode, I'm trying to learn, you know, see what other people have going on,
275
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, I mean, things change so much. I mean, how do you ever really become the expert? You know, you're always kind of learning, and we were talking about this before we did this interview, but it was like,
276
::Kam Fatz: You know, just this, this idea of,
277
::Kam Fatz: I've lost my train of thought, I'm sorry. You're good, you're good. I lost my train of thought. We were talking about,
278
::Kam Fatz: The, the idea that,
279
::Kam Fatz: I don't know, I guess it's gone. I'm sorry.
280
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: podcasts, and we were talking about, groups, and talking about.
281
::Kam Fatz: Yeah.
282
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: how AI… people are wanting real connections, and when you have a community, you're having a conversation with real people, versus when you have… when you're just selling something to somebody… I mean, there's a place for small offers that solve one problem, because sometimes people just need the… a quick answer from somebody that knows what they're talking about, rather than…
283
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You can ask AI this question, but…
284
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: as we were discussing before, you may or may not know if that answer is right or gonna work for you, and so you'll buy something and get that one specific answer. So if you're creating mini-courses, which is a great entryway for people to see how you
285
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: share information.
286
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Do that.
287
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But also have a space where they can come and interact with you, whether it's a conversation on a phone call, or a podcast interview, just…
288
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Or a workshop, something… some way for you to actually get a feel for these… for this person, rather than just, like.
289
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Trying to consume their content without
290
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: any human-to-human interaction. I think people are moving away from that a lot. That's why most of everything I do
291
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Like, I have cohorts, and I have intensives that I do. It's all… everybody shows up on a Zoom call, and we do it together.
292
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, and those are really cool, too. I love those weekly masterminds you put on. I think those are really good. You know, like, yeah, I… that's why I've kind of leaned into these livestreams lately, just because it's like…
293
::Kam Fatz: hey, I'm just a real person here doing these live streams, let's have a conversation. I'll tell you something interesting that I learned today, or let me show you how to do the… hey, let me show you how to write an email that'll make you some money, or you know, hey, here's a good way to start a membership club really easily, or…
294
::Kam Fatz: hey, here's this little piece of software that I… I created and, you know, vibe-coded, or whatever, check it out, or whatever, and I think that's…
295
::Kam Fatz: helpful to people, to get to know you, kind of like, as to what you were saying there. And, yeah, that's a good way to kind of bring them into your world a little bit, you know?
296
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It also helps them validate information that they may have you know, Googled or…
297
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: chatted with AI about, but there's still, like, there's that question in their mind of, you know, it said to do it this way, but it's not really working for me that way, and I don't really understand how to do it in a way that will work.
298
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And as human beings, we have connections with groups of people.
299
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So we're all interconnected, and, you know, one person might have an idea that sparks something for you that, you know, three…
300
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: three levels deep on their side, there might be another person over there that if they have a community that you can reach out to and connect with, and so that'll make something totally different and unique. And, you know, the internet's all about gain of information right now. We were talking about being visible
301
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In a world that is increasingly just, like, flooded with Crappy information.
302
::Kam Fatz: Yeah.
303
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So you need to be able to give people something that is from a different perspective than the one that they could just go ask Google, you know, hey, how do I do this? And Google will tell it.
304
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Because Google is AI now, and yeah, you can… there's still the 10…
305
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: coveted spots on the Google homepage. But…
306
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: If you don't have anything that's different than what Google is going to tell them, What's the point?
307
::Kam Fatz: That's so interesting that you say that, because that is…
308
::Kam Fatz: Like, I've been thinking about this a lot, like.
309
::Kam Fatz: the value of information, right? And, like, what is value, right? And I wrote this book a while back. It's all about value, and the different kinds of value. And I think that right now, where we're at.
310
::Kam Fatz: We're in the middle of this kind of, like, value shift, where, like, what people find valuable is different than it was, like.
311
::Kam Fatz: even, like, 4 or 5 years ago, you know? Like…
312
::Kam Fatz: To what you're saying there about…
313
::Kam Fatz: being able to just Google a piece of information to get what you need.
314
::Kam Fatz: Well, okay, so that means if, I write a special report teaching someone how to start a substack, and it's really cool, and it's got a lot of cool information.
315
::Kam Fatz: like, 5 years ago, someone would have perceived that special report as very valuable, but now, people might… would rather just have a conversation with an AI about how to start a substack. So, now, that special report, it doesn't have the same kind of value anymore, so, like.
316
::Kam Fatz: how do I maintain value? What is the new value for a person, right?
317
::Kam Fatz: because people see it differently because of AI. So, like.
318
::Kam Fatz: And I think it comes into some of what you're saying about personality, about community, about, you know, going the scenic route. I'm not just gonna tell you how to… look, man, I'm not just gonna tell you how to start a substack, okay? I'm gonna tell you a story about when I was a kid.
319
::Kam Fatz: Right? And this crazy thing happened to me, you know, and blah blah blah blah blah blah, and all that comes around to Substack eventually, right? And…
320
::Kam Fatz: it's all gonna be interwoven into this kind of, like, experience that is not replicated with AI.
321
::Kam Fatz: And that becomes, like, kind of the new value, and it's all… you know what it reminds me of?
322
::Kam Fatz: it reminds me a little bit of infotainment, you know what I mean? It reminds me a little bit of…
323
::Kam Fatz: Like, packaging in this entertainment value
324
::Kam Fatz: you know, with this stuff, even more than before, because people are so used to the, the AI giving them what they need, so…
325
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And… And to even go further on that, it's not just the story, but it's…
326
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: there's… there's a model also of just doing it with somebody, and they can ask questions, and you can troubleshoot with them right there, because you may run into a problem, and you don't know how to ask AI to give you the answer that you need, whereas a human being looks at it and goes, oh, just do this.
327
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, that accessibility, just, you know, being there to help somebody, human to human.
328
::Kam Fatz: Talking to them, having a conversation, it's…
329
::Kam Fatz: probably still a preferred way to figure things out, versus just, like, reading something that an AI told you. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not true, you don't know, you know?
330
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Until you spend, like, 4 hours trying to get it
331
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: whatever the problem is you're trying to solve with AI, and you realize that you're getting circular information from it. And I have run into that problem before. I was trying to do a project one time where I was trying to get Google to, become an automated
332
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to set up an automated email sequence, and you can actually use Google as an autoresponder.
333
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It takes some coding, and I spent literally 4 hours trying to get AI to give me the coding that I needed in the.
334
::Kam Fatz: That's interesting. You mean Gmail? Like, using Gmail, like Google Gmail, as an autoresponder?
335
::Kam Fatz: math?
336
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Sheets or something? And… and Gmail.
337
::Kam Fatz: Okay, that's interesting, yeah, okay. Because I've experienced something similar to that with, like, Gmask, this product called Gmass, but I wasn't familiar with the coding aspect of it and setting it up like that. That's pretty interesting. I've used AWeber for a long time.
338
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: their first clients.
339
::Kam Fatz: You were one of A. Weber's first clients? Okay. That's pretty cool. I like… I've had… I've used him for over 10 years.
340
::Kam Fatz: But… They're kind of getting on my nerves lately, because, you know.
341
::Kam Fatz: all of a sudden, they don't like doing customer support anymore, like, I can't call them. The reason I went to AWeber is because I could call them on the phone if I had an issue. Like, hey guys, look, man, here's the issue I'm having.
342
::Kam Fatz: And I could talk to somebody. Now, everybody's allergic to the phone now. So, you know, now I'm looking around like, hmm… I don't know. I've been with them for a long time, but I might have to, you know, go somewhere else, so…
343
::Kam Fatz: We'll see.
344
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And they're not the cheapest…
345
::Kam Fatz: Well, they doubled the price, they doubled the price, like,
346
::Kam Fatz: I think a year ago. And it was really funny, too, the way they did it, because, like, they were… this is so funny, I've never seen this done before in my life, but, like.
347
::Kam Fatz: They were charging at the end of the month, and then they switched to charging at the beginning of the month, and doubled the price. So what happened was, they basically charged me twice in a row.
348
::Kam Fatz: And I said, what are you guys doing, man? What are you guys doing? You just double-charged me because you wanted to switch your billing cycle. Alright, whatever. So that was annoying, but I've been with them for a long time, so I just… I stay with them, but yeah, it's very annoying. Which goes back to this whole point about everyone wants to use AI for everything, they're leaning into AI so hard on everything.
349
::Kam Fatz: And I think the end user and the end customer is getting left in the cold a little bit on it. I think they're getting left out in the cold a little bit, so…
350
::Kam Fatz: Just personal opinion.
351
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think at some point, Substack is going to become an autoresponder. I see them leaning that way. They're very close. You've got the ability to do broadcast emails to your subscribers, and the welcome emails are…
352
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: big deal, and most people don't realize how big a deal they are. And…
353
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Really, all they need to do is set up a little bit of a system where you could set up, you know, 3 to 5.
354
::Kam Fatz: Yeah.
355
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Feature posts, emails.
356
::Kam Fatz: I think that would be fantastic if they did that. Like, right now, I'm using my welcome email to deliver my free… my free thing, so, like.
357
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Huh.
358
::Kam Fatz: when people sign up for my sub stack, they get the free gift, right? And I deliver the free gift with the welcome email. But yeah, if they included, like, the ability to even do, like, a 10… a 10-email autoresponder sequence, that would be fantastic.
359
::Kam Fatz: They need to work on, in my opinion, this is my view, you might have a different experience on this, or opinion, but, like, in my view, they have to work on, like, deliverability, because, like, I'm getting killed, like.
360
::Kam Fatz: my stuff's going to promotion tabs, and everyone I subscribe to, their stuff goes to promotions tabs. I have to, like, whitelist everything to get it to not go to promotions tab.
361
::Kam Fatz: And, like, for me, like, I set up directions for people, so, like, when they subscribe, and that first email, and, like, when they first subscribe, I give them directions on how to whitelist these emails and stuff like that, and some of them, I'm sure, do, and some of them, I'm sure, don't, but
362
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, I mean, that's crazy.
363
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's a really big deal, this point that you're making, and…
364
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It also goes to something else that most people don't really realize with Substack. When you look at these people with these huge lists.
365
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Their lists are not getting… their stuff is not getting opened.
366
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And just because you have a huge list does not mean that
367
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: you have a huge buying audience. It's sometimes better to have a small, personal
368
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: List that actually, like, is interested in what you're putting out there.
369
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And then to have these…
370
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to just randomly have people subscribing to your Substack. I know that's not Substack's model, but,
371
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it is a free platform. It doesn't cost you anything unless you get paid subscribers over there, and you don't even have to get paid subscribers over there. You can just use it as a content platform, and drive your traffic to places where you can actually collect the
372
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Income.
373
::Kam Fatz: Yeah.
374
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, I agree. I agree 100%. I mean, like, it's always nice to have a big email list, of course, you know, but, I mean, you need people to open your emails. If they're not opening your emails, they're not buying anything from you, and I don't mean to be crass, okay? I don't mean to be abrasive, okay? I know some people are weird about money, but…
375
::Kam Fatz: Kind of talking about something we talked about earlier, like.
376
::Kam Fatz: Look, man, if you're in business, I mean, let's not play games. If you're in business, you have to make money. I've never seen a business that survived without making money, so this idea that you don't care about money, and you're only… you're only here to help other people, and things like that, I mean, that's…
377
::Kam Fatz: that's kind of a punk rock mentality that, like, it doesn't make any sense to me. So, I think that, like.
378
::Kam Fatz: Yes, we all want to help people. We all want to service our market as best we can, but…
379
::Kam Fatz: We have to make money. And this idea of having, like, a 10,000 person email list, and, like, 7,000 of them never see your email, because it goes to promotions tab, the other 4,000, like, they don't even remember why they signed up for your list, so they're not opening your emails, and, like, no one cares about what you have to say.
380
::Kam Fatz: It's a vanity metric. It doesn't matter if you have 10,000 people on your list, you know, you could do better with just 500 people that actually opened your emails and was interested in what you had to say. So, yeah, I 100% agree with you on that.
381
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I know big, big email marketers.
382
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I'll drop a name out there, Matt Basic.
383
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: He calls his list.
384
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: At least once a month.
385
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And by Cole, and he's… this is a person who pays to get people on his list.
386
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: He plays big money for that, to get people on his list. But if you don't open his emails after, like, 1 or 2,
387
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You're gone. He gets you off his list. It costs money to have people on your list that aren't opening your emails.
388
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And, you know, if somebody unsubscribes, it used to be like, oh no, my three people, they unsubscribed, and I felt so bad. Now it's just like, yeah, hosta la vista, baby!
389
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You're not opening those emails from me.
390
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: don't… don't get on my list. And… and don't be all butthurt if people don't want to subscribe to whatever your… your thing is on Substack.
391
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: them as a follower, they'll get your information. You don't want to be in their email box and just having them delete your stuff, because that wrecks your deliverability.
392
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: For the people that want to get your stuff.
393
::Kam Fatz: And Substack is… you know, I mean, I don't… I don't…
394
::Kam Fatz: Substack is not strictly a newsletter platform anymore, in my view, right? It's like a hybrid between, like, a newsletter platform and, like, social media. So, when you start talking about social media, now.
395
::Kam Fatz: you know, different things start taking a focus, like, vanity metrics start coming into play. Now, it's like…
396
::Kam Fatz: you want to look, right? It's like, oh, well, look, if I got, like, 5,000 people subscribed to me, and people can see that.
397
::Kam Fatz: that's like, you know, validation. Now they're gonna wanna subscribe to me, too. It's like a snowball effect now. It's not like that in my Aweber account. If I got 10,000 emails on my list in Aweber, nobody even knows that. It doesn't even matter. The only thing that matters is if they're buying things from me. That's the only thing that matters. So…
398
::Kam Fatz: with email marketing, with real email marketing, it's about one metric, and that is the sale. That is what it's about. How are sales looking?
399
::Kam Fatz: with Substack, yeah, it's a little different. And I'm not saying that to bash Substack. I love Substack, I think it's fantastic.
400
::Kam Fatz: I just don't think it's a true, like, email marketing, you know, experience, I guess you could say, you know?
401
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's evolving a lot, and I think the future of it is going to be more towards
402
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: content? A content… Hub.
403
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. Which is the way I look at it, where you can put your long-form content and make short-form content off of it, and it's great for, like, coming up with clips for you, and coming up with images for you, and creating images for you.
404
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's just that people don't understand blogging. It's… it's a blogging platform.
405
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And you get power with the blogging on a platform where there are a lot of other big heavy hitters. So don't be intimidated by, you know, the best sellers out there. A lot of those best sellers out there that are selling their courses on, you know, how to
406
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: make a million dollars on Substack next week.
407
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: those people…
408
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: joined Substack a couple years ago, when Substack was something totally different. It was really easy to get subscribers because, you know, there were only 15 of us on there.
409
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And only 3 of us knew what we were doing. It wasn't me.
410
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So… It's…
411
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You need to use the tool for how the tool is being evolved to be used, and there's, like, so many great parts to it that…
412
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I still really encourage people to use it. You can save a lot of money using Substack, but, you know.
413
::Kam Fatz: Absolutely.
414
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Again, you gotta use your head and figure out how it's going to work in your particular business, And…
415
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, I don't think there's any reason not to use Substack. I mean, like, I don't… I don't… I mean, man, if you want to start an online business, I mean, here's this platform. It's getting, like, 130 million visitors a month, okay? It is a Swiss Army knife. You can have a podcast there. You can have a blog there.
416
::Kam Fatz: You can build an email list there. You can do a lot of things right there on Substack. You can do video, you can do live streaming video on Substack. Look, it's not as big as YouTube, okay? It's not as big as…
417
::Kam Fatz: you know, some of these other platforms, but it's got a solid audience. It's a great place… it's a great place to build an audience, so I definitely think it's worth anybody's time
418
::Kam Fatz: who wants to have an online business to have a substack. In my view, even if you don't like to write.
419
::Kam Fatz: Because you can do live streaming, you can do audio, any kind of content that you prefer, you can make it happen on Substack. So, why would you not be there, you know?
420
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and I'm gonna put a plug in for school, in that Substack is great for a content hub, but it really kinda sucks
421
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: As a community-building space, where a school excels with that, and a content delivery space.
422
::Kam Fatz: Yes. And…
423
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You do have to pay for school, but they've got a couple of good plans that are… makes it super easy.
424
::Kam Fatz: they've got the $10… I think the $10 a month plan on school
425
::Kam Fatz: And like, you can be on school for free if you're just gonna be in other people's communities. You can… you can go to school, and you can just be in a few other people's communities, like… like your community.
426
::Kam Fatz: And, and see what you think, and see if you like it, and if it resonates with you, yeah, for sure, check it out. Because it's, like, 10 bucks a month for the Lite membership. I don't know if it's called Lite. Is it called Lite?
427
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: hobby.
428
::Kam Fatz: Call it Hobby. Okay, so for the Hobby membership.
429
::Kam Fatz: And it's… it's very cheap, and, you know, look, it's not hard to recoup that $10 a month. You get a few people in there, you've recouped it, so that's not too difficult. I like school, too. I think it's a really good spot.
430
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So, at the beginning, we talked about how many entrepreneurs are working harder than they need to because they're missing that one key piece in their business model. If somebody listening realizes they're stuck in that cycle right now, what is the first step they should take this week to fix it?
431
::Kam Fatz: So…
432
::Kam Fatz: if they are… okay, let me make sure I understand the question, okay? So, they are stuck in a cycle, right?
433
::Kam Fatz: They're trying to make something happen,
434
::Kam Fatz: but they're not able to make something happen. Where are they at? Explain it to me a little bit better. Like.
435
::Kam Fatz: Where are they having trouble?
436
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think the biggest problem I see with coaches out there, and entrepreneurs, is that they…
437
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They think they're gonna do one thing, and they start doing it. Yeah. And then it's like, oh, I could do this!
438
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. I'll just add that in, and let's do that.
439
::Kam Fatz: Yes.
440
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: minutes. And then…
441
::Kam Fatz: Yup.
442
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Then the five minutes are up, and nothing has happened for them, and so there's, oh, I better do this.
443
::Kam Fatz: Yeah, I mean, that is an issue I see a lot with people, you know, like, a couple of things. One, not committing to one thing, right?
444
::Kam Fatz: Here's an example.
445
::Kam Fatz: When I first started trying to lose weight, I thought…
446
::Kam Fatz: Okay, my back's hurting, right? I'm heavy, I'm, like, 280 pounds, and, like, my back is hurting.
447
::Kam Fatz: I think if I could just lose, like, maybe 10 pounds, or 15 pounds, like, I would lose weight. I would, I would fix my back pain, and it wouldn't be hurting anymore, and I'd be good.
448
::Kam Fatz: Well…
449
::Kam Fatz: A few months went by, and I'd lost, like, 30 pounds, right? I lost, like, 30 pounds, and I'm like, I'm doing great, man, I'm eating the foods I'm supposed to be eating, I'm doing amazing, but my back is still hurting all the time, man, it really sucks.
450
::Kam Fatz: to the point where I felt like…
451
::Kam Fatz: maybe there's something wrong with my back. You know, like, so I had to go to the doctors, right? And everything like that. But the point is, like, my back pain eventually went away.
452
::Kam Fatz: But it took longer than I thought it was gonna take, you know what I mean? It wasn't like a couple months situation. It wasn't like a 10 or 15 pound situation, man. It took a while. And I think it's similar with, you know, online business. You know, it takes a while sometimes to get the results you want to get.
453
::Kam Fatz: it's important to stick with what you're trying to do. Don't give up too early. It's also important to kind of adjust as you go.
454
::Kam Fatz: you're trying this, but then you gotta iterate a little bit, right? You can't just keep doing the same exact thing. I mean, I've seen people do the same exact thing for, like, a year or two, and they get no results, and by the time they come to me, they're super frustrated. They're super frustrated, they're super depressed, their morale, their confidence is at an all-time low.
455
::Kam Fatz: But a lot of it Kame from a lack of iteration. And by iteration, I don't mean completely throwing the baby out with the bathwater and just trying something different, and then pretty soon you got, like, 7 things going at once. You're not efficient on any of them. I just mean make small adjustments to what you're doing, you know, like…
456
::Kam Fatz: iterate. So as you continue to work on that same thing, iterate. Have, you know, like, I have… when I do things.
457
::Kam Fatz: I have benchmarks, right? Like, I have, like,
458
::Kam Fatz: Like, I start a show, right? This is an example. I'll start a show, and I'll say, okay.
459
::Kam Fatz: I'm gonna run the show for 20 episodes, and it's going to be a one episode a week. And, so that's 20 weeks for the show, okay? That's season one, alright? And when I get to the end of season one.
460
::Kam Fatz: I'll figure it out. I'll take a couple weeks off, and I'll look at the numbers, and I'll see what's going on. What can I change?
461
::Kam Fatz: maybe I don't like doing this show. Maybe I need a new show. You know, maybe I need something different.
462
::Kam Fatz: But still, that show is still gonna be an iteration. Even if I change the show, the goal of the original show is to put people on my email list. Well, guess what? If I change to a whole different show, because I don't like doing that one anymore, and it's only going to go one season, well, guess what? The new show is going to have the same goal, to put people on my email list.
463
::Kam Fatz: And by the way, that show is not a waste of my time. That one season will get packaged up, and I'll put it in something as a bonus.
464
::Kam Fatz: or I'll package it up and sell it in some way, shape, or form. So yeah, I think…
465
::Kam Fatz: kind of coming back to what you're saying, I'm kind of going off on a tangent, but, like, to come back to what you're saying, I would say, hey, look, you gotta stick with things probably a little bit longer than what you think you need to stick with them. It's not necessarily failing, just because it's not happening as fast as you think it should be happening. It usually takes a little bit longer than what you have going on in your mind.
466
::Kam Fatz: And at the same time, you gotta be iterating a little bit, you know? Every week. Have a… have a goal. Usually, when I do these shows, I'll have a goal to iterate, like, I'll look at it every week.
467
::Kam Fatz: I'm gonna do 20 episodes, one episode a week, but every week, I'm gonna look at how that went, and I might change it the next… the next episode will change a little bit, change a little bit, change a little bit.
468
::Kam Fatz: Just to see what's happening, right? Just to kind of poke the bear, keep poking the bear, and seeing what will work. So yeah, that's what I'd say. Does that answer the question at all?
469
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: does, but I think it… when you see something that does work, like, if you make a sale.
470
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Figure out why you made that sale, and do more of that. Double down when you succeed. I know people out there who are, like.
471
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: they're big marketers, and they will put out offer after offer after offer. We're both from the Warrior Plus Forum, where it is a marketing model. You put an offer out all the time, and do all of those offers
472
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: succeed? No. But if you put out enough of them, you're gonna find a few that do succeed, and you're gonna come up with a system for, oh, I need to do this in order to get
473
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the result that I want.
474
::Kam Fatz: Absolutely.
475
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And you keep doing more of that!
476
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And you're not CHANGING your whole business model every single time.
477
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Something doesn't work with your offer.
478
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You just need to tweak one thing.
479
::Kam Fatz: I agree, and I think it's so funny because… okay, I lost my job in 2010. At the end of 2010, October, or this was August 2000, lost my job.
480
::Kam Fatz: Decided I was gonna go back to school for business, right?
481
::Kam Fatz: started selling used books on Amazon in 2011, right?
482
::Kam Fatz: And I swear, like, there are still elements of that original thing that I started doing and what I'm doing now, because
483
::Kam Fatz: I'm selling used books on Amazon.
484
::Kam Fatz: I get really freaked out, you know, like, hey, these guys, like, they could shut down my business tomorrow, you know? I'm doing, like, 5 figures, 5 figures in used books on Amazon, and, like.
485
::Kam Fatz: Tomorrow, they could just decide they're gonna terminate my account. So is this even really my business? I don't even know. I don't think this is even my business. I think I'm just renting a space. So I get paranoid about it.
486
::Kam Fatz: I write a book about how to sell used books on Amazon, right?
487
::Kam Fatz: Okay, I start a YouTube channel, Driving traffic to the book.
488
::Kam Fatz: YouTube terminates my channel for no reason that I am aware of. They just shut me down for no reason.
489
::Kam Fatz: And I'm like, okay, well, now I'm really paranoid, because now I know this is proof of concept, they just shut my channel down, and anyway, so I started a new YouTube channel, but this new YouTube channel, I said, you know what, I'm gonna take my book about how to sell books on Amazon.
490
::Kam Fatz: I'm gonna make it a membership club, right? And the membership club is gonna have… every chapter is gonna be a module, and the module's gonna have a video. Okay, cool, and I'll put 5 to 8 pieces of content in there every month.
491
::Kam Fatz: And, okay, but what am I talking about? I'm still talking about selling used books on Amazon, and I expand it to just selling stuff on Amazon, right? And then, I get tired, a few years later, of selling on Amazon. I'm like, forget Amazon, I gotta get away from Amazon, man. They got too much control over everything.
492
::Kam Fatz: I'm gonna go into digital publishing, right? So, at the end of 2015, I closed Adventures on the River.
493
::Kam Fatz: and I opened Epic Conversions at the beginning of 2016,
494
::Kam Fatz: But I still have the same email list, right? It's the same people following me, I still have the same YouTube channel, it's the same people watching my videos, I just kind of pivoted, but, like, I'm doing the same stuff. I've got a membership club, I'm putting out courses, I'm putting out content.
495
::Kam Fatz: I've just pivoted a little bit, but, like, there are, like, elements of that original business that are still there, and we can fast-forward. I'm not gonna go through the whole freaking history, 15 years, but, like.
496
::Kam Fatz: even now, in 2026, there's been a lot of adjusting and a lot of pivoting, but there's still elements from the original thing that's still there, you know? It feels like one giant iteration, really, to me. It's not just…
497
::Kam Fatz: Just kind of to your point, you know, it's like, a lot of it's not giving up on the model, necessarily, just kind of, like, adjusting and pivoting and, you know, so…
498
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm being afraid to learn new skills in order to
499
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: To move your business forward, rather than just, like, Switching businesses altogether.
500
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Which happens a lot with people. They're… they…
501
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: they decide they're gonna do something, and it would work! I mean, anything will work for anybody if you do it long enough, and if you… if you're making the adjustments you need to make in order to reach the right people. And it's really about reaching the right people.
502
::Kam Fatz: There's a… there's a, excitement to starting something new.
503
::Kam Fatz: But, at the same time,
504
::Kam Fatz: there's, like, a power to a streak, you know what I mean? Like, there's a power… there's, like, this power that comes with the momentum of doing something over and over and over again, and building on it year after year after year.
505
::Kam Fatz: The only way to get that is to not give up, and to not constantly be starting over all the time.
506
::Kam Fatz: So, you know, and I don't think…
507
::Kam Fatz: like, a first-year business is ever gonna be, like, the equal of a business that's, you know, been built upon for 5 years, so… and you got brand equity.
508
::Kam Fatz: that you build up, the longer you're around, people get used to your name. That's why you got a lot of new companies buying old brand names right now, just to take advantage of their brand equity. So, you know, yeah, I think people shouldn't give up so fast. I'm with you 100% on that.
509
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So how can people find you, Kam?
510
::Kam Fatz: The best thing to find me, the best way to find me, is Epic Conversions. Just go to EpicConversions.com, E-P-I-C-C-O-N-V-E-R-S-I-O-N-S dot com. You sign up for my email list, it's completely free, and
511
::Kam Fatz: You can hear my ramblings and… rants! Email. I email… I email my list fairly frequently, you know, 3 to 6 times a week, I'm usually sending out an email to people, so
512
::Kam Fatz: fairly frequently, and also you can find me on Substack, I'm at Kam fromepicconversions.substack.com, and
513
::Kam Fatz: And yeah, so, very cool. That's, that's how you… best way to find me.
514
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Awesome. Thanks so much for joining us today.
515
::Kam Fatz: Thanks for having me. Nice talking to everybody. See ya.
516
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: To learn more about Kam and to find his Epic Conversions monthly paid newsletter, visit epicconversions.com and consider subscribing to Kam from epicconversions.substack.com, and we'll be sure to put those links in the show notes below. Thanks for tuning in today to the You World Order Showcase Podcast. If you're ready to amplify your voice, monetize your mission, and start attracting premium clients, your next step is simple.
517
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Head on over to thecoachesalchemist.com and schedule your free client acquisition audit. Be sure to join us for our next episode as we share what others are doing to raise the global frequency, and remember, change begins with you. You have all the power to change the world. Start today, and get visible.
