It Can’t Be People… Or Can It? The Hidden Consciousness Behind Crop Circles with Citizen D
What if discovering that humans create crop circles wasn’t the end of the mystery - but the doorway into something even stranger?
In this fascinating conversation, Jill Hart sits down with Citizen D, retired crop circle maker, Fortean researcher, and author of It Can’t Be People: Voices from the Inner Circle, to explore the hidden world behind one of humanity’s most debated phenomena.
After years inside the crop circle community, Citizen D reveals stories that challenge the simple idea of “real vs hoax.” From dream-inspired designs and impossible synchronicities to unexplained experiences in the fields, he shares why many makers believe they are participating in something far greater than creating patterns in crops.
Together, Jill and Citizen D dive into:
✨ Why human involvement may actually deepen the crop circle mystery
✨ The connection between creativity, consciousness, and the unseen
✨ Synchronicities that seem impossible to explain
✨ The “Oz Factor” and moments when reality appears to shift
✨ Ancient wisdom, intuition, and our relationship with the unknown
✨ Whether inspiration comes from within us - or through us
This conversation invites you to question what creativity really is, where ideas come from, and whether humanity is more connected to the mysterious forces around us than we realize.
Because sometimes the biggest mysteries aren’t found by looking up at the stars…
They’re discovered by looking deeper within ourselves.
Connect with D & Get His Book
https://itcantbehumans.substack.com
Want premium clients from your content?
Grab a free Client Acquisition Audit and I’ll show you exactly where your message, offer, and CTA are leaking conversions—and the 3 fixes to turn your podcast/Substack into a client pipeline.
👉 Book here: https://coachsalchemist.com
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp
Transcript
WEBVTT
1
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They spent decades asking who was making crop circles, but the answer may have distracted everyone from the bigger mystery.
2
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: After stepping inside the secret world of circle makers, one former creator discovered that human hands might only explain how these formations appear, not why so many strange things happen around them. From impossible coincidences to moments that challenged what even makers believed, the real question comes.
3
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: What if discovering people were involved wasn't the end of the mystery, but the beginning?
4
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Hi, and welcome to the You World Order Showcase podcast, where we feature life, health, transformational coaches, and spiritual entrepreneurs stepping up to be the change they seek in the world. I'm your host, Jill Hart, the coaches alchemist on a mission to empower coaches and entrepreneurs to amplify their voice.
5
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Monetize their mission and get visible. If you're ready to start attracting premium clients without chasing algorithms or hunting people down like a banshee on the mission, head on over to coachesalchemist.com and schedule your free client acquisition audit. It's the first step to building a business where your clients seek you out rather than you having to hunt them down. Today we are chatting with Citizen D. D is a retired crop circle maker.
6
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Fortean researcher and author of It Can't Be People, Voices from the Inner Circle. After years inside one of the world's most misunderstood artistic and paranormal communities, he now shares firsthand accounts from Circle
7
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Makers exploring human creativity, synchronicity, consciousness, and unexplained experiences surrounding these mysterious formations.
8
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Welcome to the show, Dee. It's so great to have you with us.
9
::D: Yeah, lovely to see you, Jill. Thanks for the return visit. I appreciate it.
10
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah.
11
::D: Again, you summed it up there. That's spot on what you just said.
12
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm really excited to chat with you now that your book's done and you're, you're coming out of the closet at least a little bit. We can now know what you look like.
13
::D: Thank you.
14
::D: Yeah, as I said before, the reason I was off camera before, primarily, is because I didn't want this to be an ego thing, and, you know, but,
15
::D: I suspect people will probably out of me soon enough anyway, and it's… there's other circle makers that are actually coming forward and doing the same thing as me, and they're… and that's… there's no collusion there, there's no conspiracy, we just happen to… we just happen to be doing it at the same time, so…
16
::D: I don't know. It's disclosure. I don't know. But yeah, I'm far more, far more relaxed now. And I'm only speaking to people I trust, though. So well done.
17
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's a test.
18
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So let me ask you the big question, and then we'll dive right in. What's the most significant thing, in your opinion, as individuals, we can do to make an impact on how the world is going?
19
::D: I wasn't expecting that. I would say listen to your inner voice and go with that.
20
::D: That's what I say.
21
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I really kind of…
22
::D: Simple, sorry.
23
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, it kind of ties into the whole crop circle thing, and what you've discovered through
24
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: your vast experience with it. I have to tell you, the last conversation we had, we talked about a lot of the things that happened and how crop circles come to be, which is way outside the realm of where I thought we were going to go.
25
::D: Yeah, yeah.
26
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You want to kind of catch people up on that part of it, and like, how did you get into it? And didn't you start out thinking that crop circles were aliens?
27
::D: Yeah, totally.
28
::D: Totally. My background is ufology. I mean, I've been, I've been, I've studied UFOs since.
29
::D: seeing Close Encounters as a kid, it had a profound effect on me. I don't know why.
30
::D: when I saw Close Encounters, I had this sense of the same kind of remembrance that Roy Neary had. It was like, you know, it was like a film within a film sort of thing. But I find that a lot… I speak to a lot of ufologists, and they… well, they've all had this pre-existing interest since childhood, and
31
::D: there's this sense… there's this sense of remembrance when they're… when they're discovering this stuff, rather than it being new to them, if you understand. It's really hard to explain. So I went in thinking that it was,
32
::D: AT? Gaia? Well…
33
::D: the first ones, the simple ones, that used to appear in the… in the UFO casebooks. What I love about the pre-internet age, Jill, I'm guessing, without being rude, we're probably around at the same age. Yeah, we are. Without being rude. You're probably younger than me. But, I'm 66.
34
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: 6.
35
::D: Well, I'm impressed. So when I was growing up with Ufology, we just had Flying Saucer Review, we had the MUFON guide, there was no internet, there was no babbling voices, it was really straightforward. We got the UFO yearbook every year and we started to see
36
::D: These single indentations in the, in the corn and they looked literally like, literally like birthed flying saucers. That's what they look like and their president apparently was the,
37
::D: the tally nests in Australia, which were done in grass, but because these were done in crop, it was far more pronounced, because the crop was a lot higher.
38
::D: And they just looked like flying saucers that had landed, like, two or three, or single circles. Sometimes there'd be a single circle, and, like.
39
::D: four satellite circles around it, so it looked like the old, Bee Movie
40
::D: the day the Earth stood still, things with the landing gear, you know? Yeah. And that's what we thought we were. That's what they thought… that's what we thought they were.
41
::D: And then when we started to see.
42
::D: a progression in the… in the patterns, which came about, really, I think the first one was the Eastfield formation in Alton Barnes in 1990, which was the Led Zeppelin cover.
43
::D: they were a lot more flowery, and there was, like, door keys and forks and, like, dumbbells and corridors. I mean…
44
::D: What happened there, in my opinion, is that,
45
::D: The whole polemic between birth flying saucers and crop circles should have been absolutely
46
::D: destroyed at that point, because everybody knows no crop circle looks… no UFO looks like that, you know, no landed UFO is going to look like that.
47
::D: But it seemed to be that they were so ingrained… UFOs were so ingrained in the consciousness by then as being connected to crop circles that the polemic changed. We had this very clunky…
48
::D: transformation that a lot of the research community kind of dust over, which is.
49
::D: Well, they suddenly became not landed flying saucers, they were then messages from our space brothers, and that to me was a very, still is a very clunky transformation, you know. Yeah, so I thought it was ET, or I thought it was, I just believed all of the theories that I saw.
50
::D: And then…
51
::D: in those days, we had something called, we still have the Crop Circle Connector, and they… that would… the season normally starts in April, in this, like, yucky granola… canola, really yucky yellow stuff, and…
52
::D: The stalks are like broom handles. They're really simple circles because the crop is so hard to maneuver. It's very stubborn.
53
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's growing next door to me.
54
::D: Oh, God, it's horrible. Have you ever been in it.
55
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah.
56
::D: Yeah, and then you.
57
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Nelson.
58
::D: When you come out…
59
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's.
60
::D: sticky, yeah.
61
::D: I've been in circles that have been made in that stuff, and it's rotten. So the season starts in April, normally finishes depending on how well, depending on how strong the summer has been and how strong the spring's been, they normally start cutting the crop around sort of between July to August.
62
::D: But when you started to see the barley and the wheat, that's where the good circles were. But Crop Circle Connector would tell us where the circles were, and hand on heart, Jill, if…
63
::D: If…
64
::D: the report said, well, there's 10 circles, but 2 of them are man-made. I wasn't interested. I just… I just knocked them off my itinerary. I wouldn't go and visit them, because I lived in London, and I didn't realize how… how close Wiltshire was to London. As soon as I found out how close it was on the M4, I thought, I'm just going to go and visit them all. But I would only visit the ones that
65
::D: of an unknown origin, the mysterious ones.
66
::D: And then, to cut a very long story short,
67
::D: I spent the entire season there one year, and I started to hear second or third hand tales from circle makers that were experiencing these dream driven synchronicity events.
68
::D: balls of light, but I don't like to concentrate too much on the balls of light, because people see them anyway, you know, I think they've been here
69
::D: Forever. And that's.
70
::D: I, I, I held them in disdain. I, I, I thought the mystery was deep enough.
71
::D: I equate it to, like, the fake Nessie footage, and the fake Loch Ness, the fake Bigfoot, the fake ghost footage. The mystery is already bad enough without these…
72
::D: idiots coming in and making it, especially now. I mean, you can't…
73
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Trust.
74
::D: Anything now.
75
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Mmh.
76
::D: Now, this… this is why I love going back to the 80s and the 90s, where it was all so pure, there was no… no deception. But, I… I held the same… I… I… I held these hoaxes, as I called them, in the same disdain as some of your listeners would probably hold me, and that… that was
77
::D: It's just ego. What are you doing? You know, the mystery is bad enough. You're just fake as your hope. It's just get out. You know, we don't want you.
78
::D: But they started to tell me that they had strange things happen to them. And, there was an instance where a club circle wasn't finished, because that's quite common. It's not…
79
::D: It's harder to do now 'cause of drones, but in those days, a crop circle could lay dormant for a day or two without being seen 'cause it was so out of the way. So that, so when people say, well, it's impossible, that couldn't have been done over four hours. Well, it wasn't. Some were done over like four hours, then four hours the following night, four hours the following night. But there was a crop circle that wasn't finished. And.
80
::D: the team said to me, look, we've been kind of listening to what you've been saying over the past few weeks. We've heard you say that you don't really care how the circles get there, it's more about their effect afterwards. Would you like to come out and finish the circle with us? And I went, absolutely. And,
81
::D: Something strange happened and that's when.
82
::D: I thought Okay.
83
::D: There is something to this now.
84
::D: And that's what, that's when I become hooked and
85
::D: That's when I become involved in doing it after that.
86
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So interesting. I, you know, we.
87
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We as humans want everything to, like, fall in these.
88
::D: Kim White.
89
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, patterns that we feel comfortable with, that we've been told, or even if it's aliens, you know, the fact that we, we grew up believing it was aliens and, you know, I, I.
90
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I lived through the 80s, and when the alien things started, really, the late 70s, early 80s, it really started becoming
91
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: more pronounced. People were coming out and saying, yep, I've been taken, and
92
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And so it was easy to believe that crop circles were, you know, aliens either talking to us or or making them themselves. And yeah, and then there were people that were saying, no, it was Gaia guys making this.
93
::D: Yep.
94
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: All over. That's the other one.
95
::D: Yes.
96
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Hey, but…
97
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the you know. And then there's always the crowd. There's always just people doing it. But yeah, maybe it is just people doing it for many of them or all of them. But the thing that's so interesting is that
98
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They don't just wake up one day and say, I think we'll just go out and commit this hoax on everybody and we'll just destroy these fields. That's not how it happens, right?
99
::D: No, I think what you've touched on there, which is correct, is that most of the crop circle makers that I know,
100
::D: all had this Predisposition towards the paranormal before.
101
::D: They started doing it, you know, and, so when something.
102
::D: absolutely insane happened in the field, they will probably perceive it in a different way than an ordinary person will, because they're used to, they're predisposed towards the paranormal. You know, they've had out of body experiences as children, or they've seen ghosts or whatever. But it's.
103
::D: I use so many analogies in this book, but one of my favorites was from a circle maker, and he said, he said.
104
::D: It's like putting together a jigsaw.
105
::D: And you think you've got all the pieces, but you've only got 2 or 3, and you haven't even got the picture on the box. You don't even know what you're saying. We think we're armed. We think we're equipped right now.
106
::D: to, to, to, to… Solve this, but I don't think we're advanced enough.
107
::D: to solve it. But I also think that, as I said to you before in our last interview, which I enjoyed very much.
108
::D: I think that we once had this knowledge… I sound like a hippie, I know. I think we once had this, and I think that in this technocratic age, it's either been suppressed from us, so that we don't know our full potential, or we've just forgotten about it.
109
::D: You know, and I think that our ancestors who were making the stone circles and using these sacred Neolithic sites that we're using.
110
::D: I think they knew. I think they knew all of this.
111
::D: And I think they respected, and I think they revered it.
112
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Hi.
113
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'll share this with you. It's
114
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: My my theology has moved a lot over the years, and I
115
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: pretty convinced that mostly there's there's several layers to theology, and this will fit in with what you're talking about. But there's there's the great consciousness.
116
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And then there's these guides that we all like to worship.
117
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and they are actually aliens by definition. They're aliens. They're extraterrestrial.
118
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But… they…
119
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: procreated in some cases with humans. And so now you've got like these Nephilim was what the Bible calls them.
120
::D: That's what you'd say.
121
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But it's… we're still… we're still worshipping aliens, just like, you know, the Spanish worshipped, or were worshipped when they got to Mexico. They thought they were gods.
122
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And it could be because they'd already been visited by.
123
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: these other ETs, and, you know, people from different places, when they show up, they… and they're very different.
124
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: they… engender people to worship them.
125
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and they don't understand the things that are like commonplace for them. I think.
126
::D: I think what ties in with that is… when you talk about when…
127
::D: Did you say the Aztecs? Is that what you said was the Aztec.
128
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: The Aztecs are Mex.
129
::D: I was speaking to a ufologist about this, and he said that when they came in, when the ships came, when they were invaded.
130
::D: The the the village folk, the natives didn't actually see the ships until they were right on top of them because they couldn't comprehend.
131
::D: The vision, do you understand?
132
::D: Did you know about that?
133
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, because it's just like…
134
::D: They literally…
135
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It doesn't make any sense.
136
::D: Yeah, but I, I think that, as I said.
137
::D: I studied ufology. I love the gold. I love the golden age of ufology. When we were reading, we were reading, about Majestic 12 when it was just coming out. And we were, I was, my, my main go-tos were John Spencer, Jenny Randalls, who I adore, and, Jacques Vallee, who to me is the godfather.
138
::D: And, obviously, Hynek, and I loved John Keel as well. And, I think… And overriding…
139
::D: thing that they are all saying is that this phenomenon that we… that we now refer to as… well, now… what is it now? Now it's… now we're looking at Primantises, aren't we? We're looking at different stuff now. We… we've gone from Greys, we had the Nordics, it's like…
140
::D: a fashion. It seems to me that this has been with us since our very inception, and may actually been involved in some way with our reception, and we just, we just call it a different thing.
141
::D: As as we progress, I say progress supposedly as we as we progress technology technologically, it mirrors where we are.
142
::D: So… We saw… we had the… we had… the precursor to the UFO sightings, the immediate precursor.
143
::D: was, as you probably know, the airship sightings. We were seeing airships before airships were a thing, okay? And whereas now we say abducted by greys.
144
::D: our ancestors said, away with the fairies. It's the same thing, and I think it models itself.
145
::D: Based on where we are, you know, I think it's really interesting that we don't see Nordics anymore, that Nordics seem to be very 1950s. Greys are going there, we're now seeing different stuff coming in, and it just seems to be that it masquerades.
146
::D: It metamorphosizes based on what… Where we are, in our… Evolution, if you like.
147
::D: Because that's a misnomer, because I think we're regressing, personally. I think on an evolutionary person, we are actually regressing.
148
::D: I think it's getting really bad, but from a tech… from a technological point of view, we are supposedly advancing, but I think whatever this phenomenon is has been with us
149
::D: from the get-go.
150
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I do too. I think that they maybe all actually exist, all these different extraterrestrial species.
151
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There's the reptilians, there's.
152
::D: Yeah, I know the 57 writers think, yeah, I know, I know, I know.
153
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: them, but they… It's…
154
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And to me, it's very possible that all of these stories that have been passed down over the years, and they're different in different places, but they all have, like, these threads of.
155
::D: Yep.
156
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There's these gods, and they did these things, and and then they left offspring, and
157
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: they gave gave knowledge. But you know, people just couldn't handle that information. And so it it got told into different stories.
158
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay.
159
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And I think…
160
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think that it could be a case of, you know, there were wars and stuff happening up there, and different species of ETs were fighting with each other, and then we just happened to be
161
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Collateral damage, in some cases.
162
::D: I go more down the,
163
::D: interdimensional route. I don't… I think these things masquerade as being from outer space, but I think it's actually…
164
::D: Right here, right now.
165
::D: Do you know about when I mentioned Jenny Randall's?
166
::D: She was the first person that I've…
167
::D: where I found about… about the Oz… the Oz effect, the Oz factor. People call it the Oz effect now, but it's really the Oz factor. And what we see… I've seen this in the fields where…
168
::D: sometimes before somebody has a UFO experience, there's the, like, this glitch where this, like, there's, like, reality shift, where everything's the same as it was, but it wasn't. The analogy that I like to use, and I've said it in the book, is that, you know when you see
169
::D: these cop shows where you see the people being interrogated, and the room is empty, and then you just see the time frame, and then you just see the time frame, and then it skips. So the room is exactly the same as it was 3 seconds before, but there's this…
170
::D: Tiny!
171
::D: Glitched that you can barely register.
172
::D: that's what the Oz factor is, where before people have, like, extraordinary sightings, they get this shift in reality. And there's… there's a couple of stories in my book where the stories are just absolutely insane. What I'm saying, they're insane. But…
173
::D: that the experiences are saying, do you know what? While that was happening, before that happened, when we were making the crop circle, we had, like, this flotilla of traffic going across that road. But when that really odd thing happened.
174
::D: There was no traffic then.
175
::D: There was no breeze then. We didn't hear any birds then. There was no owls then. And then, once we had the experience, it kind of…
176
::D: All came back again, it's like an alternative.
177
::D: reality, I suppose. I don't know what it… I don't know if it's mental, it's projected, I don
178
::D: Sometimes when you, when you.
179
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: kind of shift.
180
::D: It's it's a shift.
181
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It's a shift and it happens fast.
182
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Well, it's happening. It could be a split second. I've had it happen to me. I saw somebody shapeshift in front of me.
183
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. And I was the only one.
184
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But I know what you're talking about. It's just like reality changes for you for just.
185
::D: Tiny. You can't even define it. It's tiny.
186
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But it's… while it's happening, you're very cognizant of the space that you're in, And then you're back.
187
::D: I think what's even stranger than that is that I've got some, as I said in this book, I've got some crazy stuff.
188
::D: you know, that's happened with people that I've spoken to, but they all said, Jill, that in the time that it was happening.
189
::D: they thought it was the most natural thing in the world. And one of them explained it to me, he said, this isn't…
190
::D: the paranormal, it's the ultra-normal, we just don't understand it yet. And he phrased it really nicely, he said, the extraordinary
191
::D: is just extra… Ordinariness, okay, we just think it's paranormal, it's really, it's really how things are.
192
::D: But… When people are experiencing this really weird stuff I'm talking about in the book.
193
::D: As it's happening, they're not freaked out They're just like…
194
::D: And then… and then sometimes they were doing their washing up two weeks later and going, what the was that? You know, it registers, like, two weeks later, you know? But at the time, it's like… it's like a delayed reaction, and then they go, what the… and…
195
::D: But at the time, it's normal.
196
::D: In the… what I can't understand… After my…
197
::D: all this time I've said this.
198
::D: I don't know if we are consulting with the Muse.
199
::D: With our inner selves, or whether we are consulting with something external.
200
::D: And there's an example that I've just been proofreading where somebody.
201
::D: Had a dream about this crop circle. Absolutely vivid. I haven't told you this story. Vivid. Saw the crop circle in his head.
202
::D: Woke up, looked at the literature, looked at all the
203
::D: He found no one had done it before, so he says, right, I wonder if I can do this, so he drew it out on his…
204
::D: Helix, you know, compass set.
205
::D: Because that's… that's how we normally plot how we're going to do, like, an inch… a centimetre on paper is, like, a few feet in the field. He saw that it was achiev
206
::D: And he phoned up another circle maker, and he said, look, I've got this idea that I've dreamt.
207
::D: I reckon I can do it, because I've plotted it, but it's too… and he tried to explain it over the phone, and the bloke said, I don't know what you're talking about. And he said, it's too convoluted, I can't explain it, I'll have to come round. Are you free now? And if I come round now, then if you like it, we can put a date in the diary, you know?
208
::D: And on the way round to this guy's house, he had this compulsion.
209
::D: to look at a field to his left, which was on his commute. I mean, he sees the field every day, two or three times a day sometimes. No reason at all to look at this field, just this inner, inner… he said it was like an inner voice that said, look.
210
::D: And he looked to he looked to this particular point, which he had no reason to do otherwise. And there was exactly this crop circle that he was about to make.
211
::D: So he got to his friends and said, well, I'm here now, but the whole trip's pointless, because it's already been done. And I don't know if that is a collusion with the…
212
::D: With an external force or whether because the crop circle was so local to him, whether when it was being made, whether that bled into the collective consciousness and he was so local to it that it just.
213
::D: He plucked it down, you understand?
214
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yep.
215
::D: I don't know if it's external or if it's the muse. I don't know. And what I also love is that,
216
::D: Sometimes people will say, well, I had an idea for a crop circle.
217
::D: I didn't do it because it was too complicated, so what I did instead was I thought, listen, I'll just doodle something until something better comes along, okay? And they just doodle something completely absent-mindedly, not thinking about it, and that's when
218
::D: it flooded in, and he looked at… he looked at the aftermath and went, that's incredible, I wonder if I could do that, and then he could… so…
219
::D: It's that whole thing of like when you, when you surrender, when you surrender something unconsciously, that's when whatever this thing floods in. Like when Mozart says that the music came to be fully formed. I mean, Coleridge said the art would come to, you know, it just seems to be that when you surrender to yourself, it's like the force, like Luke Skywalker, when you surrender yourself to it unconsciously.
220
::D: That's when it comes in, and is it us, or is it something else, you know?
221
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, I think Edgar Cayce was the one that said that there would come a time when we would, we would see, people would see that other dimension. It would be normal. Yeah, we're not there yet, but.
222
::D: Totally.
223
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There are some people that are starting to be more open to that idea.
224
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to letting… letting the other…
225
::D: The otherness. Yeah.
226
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: otherness. Yeah. Exist in, in their present.
227
::D: Yes.
228
::D: Yeah, you're right.
229
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: There's just like so much.
230
::D: When I found out
231
::D: When I found out that there was a human element to crop circles, I was furious. I thought, I've wasted 20 years of my life.
232
::D: And then… 5 minutes later, I thought, hold on a minute, if humans are involved in this.
233
::D: the mystery is actually much deeper than… it makes, like, Gaia and aliens almost seem mundane, because we are a component to something bigger.
234
::D: And there's this other analogy that a circle maker said to me, he said, he said, he said, Dee, he said, it's a game of chess and we think we're playing it, but we're actually the pieces.
235
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Gah!
236
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I, it, it.
237
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I talk about the layer of the gods, but there's this global consciousness, a consciousness that is all of us.
238
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And even the things that we worship.
239
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We're all interconnected in this bigger organism.
240
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah. And…
241
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: don't ask me to define what's outside of the organism, but the organism that is the great consciousness, we are just pieces of it. We're all connected, we're all connected to all of the aspects, like nature, and the air, and all the elements.
242
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And we're connected to whatever these other entities are.
243
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: In other dimensions, if they're in other dimensions, if they're actually here physically, I don't know.
244
::D: I equate it literally to a Google Drive.
245
::D: Honestly, and everybody knows everything, and sometimes… so I've had instances of people that have had an idea to… had an idea to do a crop circle, and thought, I'll hold that thought.
246
::D: And then someone else's… somebody else has done it.
247
::D: Two days later, within a few miles of where they had the idea.
248
::D: I've been in that situation where we've had a collective idea of thought, and then what happens is, when you see the pattern.
249
::D: And it's your pattern.
250
::D: you start to automatically become suspicious, and you do the human thing. Where did they see our drawing? Obviously, they've nicked it. Where did… did they hear us? And of course, they haven't. It's just, you know… It's part of the consciousness. I've heard of teams bickering and falling out over that. Where did you nick that octopus from? I was about to do that next week.
251
::D: Well, how could I have done? You know I've not seen, you know.
252
::D: Yeah, that's the bit that really interests me. We have apparitions, we have like time shifts, we have strange things we can't explain, but it's the consciousness. That's the thing that really.
253
::D: And the dreams… that's the thing where I think…
254
::D: there's something going on here. And I know that I'm not getting much flack from people, because obviously it's like flat earthers. If you're convinced, you're convinced. You're not going to convince anybody, you know, that if your mind's already made up that you think it's orbs or whatever, I'm not going to convince you otherwise. But what I would say to you is that
255
::D: If you're prepared to accept that humans do make crop circles, but not in the capacity of hoaxes, we're not doing it to pull the wool over your eyes, we're doing it because we feel compelled, then…
256
::D: welcome, sort of thing, you know? Just, just, just look at it. Don't write it off as I used to, and say, oh, there's, there's, there's 10 circles to a man made, we don't want, don't want those. Just look at those as well, because there
257
::D: That's where I am with it, and that's what the purpose of this book is. And the reason why this book took so long, and it took years, 2 years, it's only 180 pages, and that's because I've had to chuck away about 200 pages, because I thought.
258
::D: Well, I've got that story, I've got that story. It was the same stories coming to me from different circle makers, just the same stories, so…
259
::D: I find that encouraging that I've had to lose 200 pages.
260
::D: Because they're all the same. That's when you get convinced, okay, well, sometimes you have to step back and go, is there something to this? Yeah, because I've got that story, and that's identical to that story, and he doesn't know him, or he's a Frenchman. It's, you know, that's when you think, there is something here.
261
::D: But I'm also… yeah.
262
::D: Don't.
263
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I was going to say, I wonder if they're kind of related to, you know, the markings in the, I want to say Peru. The Mexico.
264
::D: lines. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
265
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It could totally be that human beings made those.
266
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: They just, the same way that we make crop circles.
267
::D: Yeah.
268
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But they were compelled.
269
::D: Oh, yeah, I think, well, there's a band in this country called Killing Joke, and they're fantastic, and they're incredible. They've just lit up because the guitarist died, but their whole MO and their whole reason for being, to some extent, was…
270
::D: Through esoterics, and the lead singer, Jazz Coleman, he, slept in the abdomen.
271
::D: Of the spider.
272
::D: And…
273
::D: on those, and he said it was a portal. He said he had the same kind of otherworldly experience as he did when he recorded an album in the Great Temple, in the pyramids. He said it is a portal.
274
::D: now, and and
275
::D: If it is humans, and I think it probably was, it just makes it even more mysterious, you know? What I always say is when people knock, when people knock circle makers, there's two things I say. The first thing is that
276
::D: If you see Wicca, if you see paganism, and if you see witches, No one…
277
::D: Disputes the spell just because it was cast by a human.
278
::D: Do you understand?
279
::D: But with circle making, we… that does happen. They go, well, that can't be magical because it's… There's… there's.
280
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Exce.
281
::D: Yeah, because there's paper involved, but…
282
::D: It's the motivation and it's the compulsions that that's that that that's what.
283
::D: That's what really intrigues me and I haven't been in the field for 10 years, 12 years.
284
::D: But I still look back at that time and go, God, that was all engineered so that was supposed to happen. I was meeting random people, and…
285
::D: there was, like, this… it was all orchestra. Do you understand? You look back and you go, that was orchestrated. Why did I meet that random person at that point? And why did that… you know, it's all, like, chess pieces.
286
::D: And I don't know, I'll say it again, I don't know if it Talking telepathically to each other.
287
::D: Or if it's…
288
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I know about that rock they found in Roswell that has a design on it and it's not.
289
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: A human did not make that design. Do you know what I'm talking about?
290
::D: Yet.
291
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay.
292
::D: No, I didn't know about it.
293
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Well, there's a rock and it has a design on it. It and it was found.
294
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: after a crop circle was made with the exact same sign.
295
::D: Yes.
296
::D: But that happens, yeah, it happens. I mean, the other thing that's crazy is that sometimes… I've been in… I've been involved in circles, not making them, but I've known the stories whereby somebody has…
297
::D: had an experience in a circle which is specific to that… so it's as if that circle was made for that specific person. Now, when I first heard those stories, I thought it was ego, I thought that was just somebody who's just trying to make it all about them, them, them.
298
::D: But then, if you look at the… if you look at holistics, if you look at, like, the fundamentals of most religions, especially Buddhism, it's like all is one, so…
299
::D: that one person having that experience represents everybody, you know? And she went into a circle, and she had an amulet on, a talisman, and she wished for it in the field.
300
::D: And there it was. And she… she was a tourist, so she was, like, due to go back home, like, two days later, so that was the only opportunity, you know? And so, yeah, the circle was exactly what… was exactly what she wanted to see, and it was her…
301
::D: I think… I think the amulet was… was given to her by her grandmother. It was something really personal, you know, so she took… she took that crop circle personally, you know. But, unfortunately.
302
::D: Because she had a magical experience in there, she wasn't prepared to accept that the people were involved in making it.
303
::D: that… that's the… that is the paradox that we've got, is that when I was making, the team leaders would, like, put nests in there, and they put…
304
::D: And I used to say, why are you going to that trouble of putting that? And he'd say, well, you see, the more we make it look as if it's not manmade, the more power it will have, which ties in with that thing with me before, eight out of ten. He said, we have to make it look as if it's not humans for it to actually be.
305
::D: Activated.
306
::D: And for it to have its magic, and then the people that come in afterwards.
307
::D: Arguably, some people say that their belief and
308
::D: just, like, also it leaves a residue in the pattern as well, and it's powerful, you know?
309
::D: So there are paradoxes here, you know.
310
::D: Because as soon as a circle is debunked and proven to be to be made, it's kind of like the authorship. Once there's authorship.
311
::D: The magic kind of goes, you know, and the only reason why I'm doing this now.
312
::D: is because… I just… because…
313
::D: the reality and what the… and what… what… what the Crop Circle community tell you is going on is so far removed towards… to what is actually going on, you know, that, I don't think it hurts for us to have our… to have our voice now and say, look.
314
::D: We're not the enemy, you know, there's really strange stuff going on here. We're not eager to… also, crucially, we're not chosen ones, we're not anointed, we're not channeling, we're just aligned, and we are arguably, perhaps, exploited by the phenomenon in doing this, you know, because…
315
::D: It's we're just compelled to do it, and we don't know why. And we get ideas that we think are ours, and they're not, or they're part of our id, you know, it's a rabbit hole. The more you fit, the more
316
::D: I look at it, the more I think… I don't think we know anything, but there's definitely a myst… I end the book by saying, there's a mystery here, but it might not be the one that you want.
317
::D: That's that's how I close it.
318
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think the whole world is like that.
319
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It just like.
320
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: every time you turn around, you can… you can live on different levels. You know, you can have your everyday life where you just kind of put all this stuff to the side and say, it's not gonna impact me. But the minute you start becoming aware.
321
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: of of what's happening around you and the synchronicities that happen. There's magic happening every day, everywhere.
322
::D: It's the synchronicities that blow my mind with this stuff. That's where I think I'm definitely onto something because all the stories are the same
323
::D: It's always… it's the synchronicities, it's random meetings, it's…
324
::D: Think it's, it's go, it's going to put a circle in a certain place and you're, and you're obstructed from doing that.
325
::D: through road work, through mundane stuff, and you end up making a circle in a different… in a different place to the place you're supposed to go to, because obviously God says… God laughs at your plans, and then you find out that the place that you've actually been
326
::D: Forced to do it.
327
::D: is of much more relevance to the pattern that you're doing it in that place, or it's… and combined with the date. It's, you know, we've made a decision, we can't do it, but where we've ended up is just blown the significance up of the circle by 300%.
328
::D: You know.
329
::D: We that that and as I said to you before, you make a mistake.
330
::D: And the beauty of doing some unusual designs is that the public
331
::D: haven't seen what it's supposed to be in the first place, so then I'm the wiser if it's messed up. So if you make a mistake, you replicate the mistake, and then it turns out that… and you've done that just to, like.
332
::D: Repair it and then you, then you, then you find out that that mistake is the most relevant and vital part of that formation and, and the rest of what you thought you were making is irrelevant. It was just that mistake.
333
::D: Happens, it happens all the time.
334
::D: all the time.
335
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Do you, do you feel that crop circles are still being made?
336
::D: Wow.
337
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: seem like it.
338
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Like it, there was like an explosion of them.
339
::D: Yeah, I know, I know. When I was, when I became interested, there was like 60, 65 in one season.
340
::D: Moving.
341
::D: There's been, I think, 10.
342
::D: 10 this season. See, it's getting harder to do because, because…
343
::D: The same hot spots were being hit year after year, you know, the farmers.
344
::D: Just cut them out straight away. So the circle makers just go, the circle makers have branched out now and gone to other areas. They've gone to Dorset and they've gone to Somerset. And that's another, that's another, you know, clue for telling you that they are manmade. Okay. It's not ET hasn't gone somewhere else. Okay. It's just that,
345
::D: Because the farmers…
346
::D: the farmers are more concerned about the damage that's made afterwards, rather than the damage of the actual crop circle itself, and that's not me, that's not mythology, they'll tell you that, okay? It's not the actual act of making the circle, it's the people that force their way, you know.
347
::D: into the crop, not using the tram lines, you know, littering the place. That's where the damage is done. So the farmers just say, well, okay, we're not playing. So…
348
::D: If you put a circle down, it'll be gone. It'll be gone within 12 hours or 24 hours. Don't even bother. So that's why they've cropped circles of light branched out and there's.
349
::D: Only been one in the hotspots this year so far, one or two, I think. But that's why, because the circle makers have moved somewhere else because they know they're not going to be. But even in the new areas, they're getting cattle immediately because the farmers don't want people in their field. I know a few weeks ago there was a crop circle made in Groverley Woods, which is about…
350
::D: 10 miles from me.
351
::D: Nothing to do with me, I promise, and
352
::D: And apparently, somebody was in the field in trespassing. There's a lot of people in there. And the farmer said something like.
353
::D: You know, do you not realize the money this is costing me? And this hippie bloke said, money doesn't mean anything. And the right just the farmer just got annoyed. You just cut the thing out. He cut it around them.
354
::D: Just, yeah, money, money is a construct. He said, yeah, okay, but you're still in, you're still in my back garden wrecking my, my livelihood. So the convoluted answer is, yeah, they're still there, but the hotspots are not being hit because they're getting cut out immediately, but they're even getting cut out now.
355
::D: In other places because the farmers are sick to death of these things now.
356
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Hmm.
357
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Interesting that they're they're happening in in farmland versus like with those lay line or those lines.
358
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I struggle with remembering the names of some of these things. But
359
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Those are those are out in a.
360
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: in a deserty area.
361
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and remained for, you know.
362
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: at least hundreds of years, if not thousands.
363
::D: Oh, what you mean with the NASA lines, you mean with the Peru.
364
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yes.
365
::D: Well, the thing with crop circles is that there's, there's a, there's only a certain window that you can do it. You've got, as I said, you've got that, you've got that yucky canola stuff, which is
366
::D: When you get to June and July, and the wheat and the barley is maturing, that's the time to do it, because they… because the…
367
::D: It's much more pronounced.
368
::D: And if you make it and the seed is mature, it goes down so easy. It's like Velcro when it goes down. And it's so pronounced, especially in wheat barley, it tends to spring up, but in mature wheat, it stays down.
369
::D: And I remember doing a crop circle once where, We started, and it was…
370
::D: Overcast, a bit of cloudy, and then it started to torrentially… I've never been so wet in my… the rain, it was like sheets coming down. And what we had to do, and this is quite common.
371
::D: we had to 70% finish it. So we said, okay, listen, we won't put the… we won't put the… we won't put the stardust on it. There's other stuff we can put on it. Let's just get out. We're saturated. So it was 70% finished, but the world was none the wiser.
372
::D: But when we went back the next day, two things happened. Firstly, the researchers and the believers were saying, this must be man-made. No one would be mad enough to go out on a night like that, you know, but we did, because it wasn't raining at the time. But, the effect of the rain
373
::D: And the flattening of the crop, the effects of the rain, it was, like, glued to the floor. It… if you're… if I was a believer.
374
::D: I'd have looked at it and gone, there's no way that man can do this, because it was so flat. It looked like something had come down and, like, transferred itself down there, you know?
375
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Interesting.
376
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So how can people find your book and get in touch with you?
377
::D: I'm putting it out.
378
::D: on August the 15th.
379
::D: I'm putting it out on Amazon. That's out of choice because I've printed books before on other subjects.
380
::D: First, you've got all that stock in your garage going moldy, you know, it's really hard to know how many to print, you know.
381
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I don.
382
::D: Yes.
383
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Fine.
384
::D: Sorry?
385
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love printing on Amazon, print on demand.
386
::D: The other thing is, if you do a print book, and I've done that in the past with other projects. If you find one typo that typo, you just can't stop looking at it, and there's nothing you can do about it. But with Amazon you can just amend it. And then, you know, so
387
::D: That will be worldwide, and that will be August 15th, and that is called…
388
::D: It can't be people. And the reason why I called it it can't be people is when I walked into my first crop circle, I looked around with the same parameters that I just explained to you. I think it had been raining. I just looked around this thing and went, God, it can't be people. And of course, now I know now.
389
::D: It's right and wrong. So it's called It Can't Be Keep, Can't Be People, Voices from the Inner Circle. And, I've, I've named it.
390
::D: My, my, my pseudonym is Citizen D, because I want the circle, I want the stories to be talking rather than the author, if you understand.
391
::D: That's my main motivation for doing it, under a pseudonym, is because I think, don't make it about the person, make it about…
392
::D: because these are the crop circle people that… it's the people I've interviewed. My stories are just like… there's only… there's only a few, but it's the people I've interviewed. This is… that's what I'm interested in, and the fact that the stories…
393
::D: a lot of them mirror each other, so I've had to chuck them away, but the ones I've kept are the most representative examples. And you can follow my substack, which is free, and that's substack.itcan'tbepeople.com, and I put all my interviews on there as well, so you'll be on there when we put this out.
394
::D: And that's.
395
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Excellent. It's actually, it can't be people.substack.com.
396
::D: Oh, sorry, I should know that one.
397
::D: That is awful.
398
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm all about Substack all the time.
399
::D: You know what? You know what's happening psychologically to me, Jill, because this I did. I did a podcast last week with Shannon Legro. She's great.
400
::D: And she said at the end, well, obviously, I'll be talking to you in a couple of years, we'll be, you know, when you get more stories. And I said to her the same as I'm saying to you, I'm out, this is it, I'm not doing anything after this, I've moved on to other projects, this is it
401
::D: I just wanted… this was a cathartic thing for me, where I wanted to get out of my system and interview the people that I wanted to interview. But, you won't be seeing me again.
402
::D: I'm not pursuing this any. I'm not looking to be on the lecture circuit or be a, you know, an ongoing author with it. I'm done. This is it. I just want to get the book out and get on with my life now.
403
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Well, I'm so glad that I got the opportunity to chat with you, not once, but twice.
404
::D: That's mutual.
405
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Good.
406
::D: Including.
407
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
408
::D: Pleasure.
409
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Thank you for joining us today and sharing your wisdom.
410
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You can learn more about Citizen D and get his recently published book.
411
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It Can't Be People, Voices from the Inner Circle. Please visit his Substack at ItCan'tBePeople.com.
412
::D: Emma.
413
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Be sure to put those links in the show notes below.
414
::D: You're doing it now.
415
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I'm having trouble with it too. Alright, thanks for tuning in with us today. If you're ready to amplify your voice, monetize your mission, and start attracting premium clients, your next step is simple. Head to thecoachesalchemist.com and schedule your free client acquisition audit.
416
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Join us for our next episode as we share what others are doing to raise the global frequency, and remember, change begins with you. You have all the power to change the world. Start today and get visible.
417
::Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That was good.
